Joe Kennedy is a son of Pittsburgh and the Presbyterian Church. He is a lawyer who served as Director of Operations for Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood, and has recently created a nonprofit organization, Riverbends, Inc., to help African-Americans and others discover and preserve their ancestral heritage using online technology. We spoke recently sitting by the fire in my home.
How has your personal journey strengthened or challenged your faith?
It is hard for me to separate being black, being gay, and being Christian. These are all me. My life has been a journey in which race, faith and sexuality are all a part. My status as a GLBT Christian has helped me identify with oppressed groups, and to recognize that as Christians – and even just as humans – we have an obligation to treat each other with dignity and respect. Experience has strengthened my faith in Christ, but it has sometimes undermined my confidence in human beings. It is a challenge when some of us insist on being treated with dignity and then people fail to respond appropriately. We have an obligation to hold each other accountable for our behavior.
What is one of the defining moments in your life as a Christian?
I was at the PC(USA) General Assembly in 1996 when an effort to remove the restriction on ordination of GLBT Presbyterians was narrowly defeated. There was a palpable sense of despair, pain, anger and demoralization in the hall, and in my own heart. I was, after all – and still am – a self-identified, unrepentant and active homosexual ordained as an Elder in the PC(USA).
The silence after the vote was broken when a young woman stepped up to the microphone and introduced herself as Rebecca Kirkpatrick, a Youth Advisory Delegate from Pittsburgh. I have known Rebecca all her life, as we grew up together in the East Liberty Presbyterian Church. She spoke out in that dark moment to make certain that all of those in the room who disagreed with the Assembly’s decision had a mechanism for recording our opposition. I have never been prouder to be a Presbyterian than when I saw that there were people like her who cared enough about the rights and feelings of GLBT Presbyterians to insist publicly that our ongoing disenfranchisement be noted.
In a way, this experience correlates to my African-American experience and my interest in genealogy. Many of my ancestors were slaves, so records of their lives are scarce. But we humans do tend to leave behind documentary evidence of our mistreatment of each other, and sometimes that evidence is the only record that survives. We have to learn from such records, commit ourselves to stopping all forms of mistreatment, and make certain that they are not repeated.
Is there a prayer or meditation that helps you make it through trying times?
I get strength and guidance from a prayer and from a passage in Luke:
The Serenity Prayer:
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can
And the wisdom to know the difference.
And Luke 10:25-28, where a lawyer asks, “What must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus’ answer is clear: “You shall love the Lord your God with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.”
Also, I love music, so sometimes a hymn is as good as a prayer. The first one that comes to mind is “The Church’s One Foundation,” which is a stately reminder of our interconnectedness as Christians. We can argue about Biblical interpretation, dogma, history or politics, but we ought to strive to coalesce around a shared vision of what Christ calls us to be and to do today.
In your mind, what are the Biblical foundations for LGBT inclusion in the church?
I think I will stick with Luke 10:25-28. Loving my neighbor means making a place for my neighbor, recognizing that my neighbor is just as human as I am.
What would you say to those Christians who have a different view on inclusion?
I would say that no one is the gatekeeper to God’s kingdom. If someone feels appointed to that job, then he or she is simply wrong about that. Scripture is a tool, not a weapon. We are called to love the Lord our God and to love our neighbors, not to worship Scripture or to peddle bigotry and hatred in the name of God.
We have to make room for each other at the table, hear each other’s concerns, and respond in a caring manner. Care and Love are action verbs. Everyone has something of value to share. But accountability for how we behave toward each other is crucial.
Do you have a story of a person who embodies Christ’s teachings?
Fred Rogers was the most spiritually centered person I have ever known. He believed through and through that the greatest gift you can give another person is the gift of your honest self. The thing I respected most about him was that he not only said this, he lived it. Personally, professionally, with those who watched him on TV, what he gave was the gift of his honest self. He was a puppeteer, minister, songwriter, advocate for children — an unlikely mix, but the world is a better place because he shared the gift of his honest self with all of us.
Fred didn’t spring forth fully formed, though. He learned from others all along the way, and he worked very hard at becoming the man he was. Fred was good at reminding us that we are each special. We can become good at that, too. The same giving of our honest selves should be true for every one of us.
What can we do to foster dialogue and build bridges with people with different views on inclusion?
We have to be honest about who we are and what we have experienced. We have to listen lovingly to each other, even when we disagree. We need to act with belief in the promises God has made to us. We need to celebrate together our interconnectedness — especially when we disagree. And we have to insist upon change instead of just hoping that some future generation will do a better job.
That hymn, “The Church’s One Foundation,” includes the following pertinent verse:
Though with a scornful wonder, [the Church is] sore oppressed,
By schisms rent asunder, By heresies distressed:
Yet saints their watch are keeping, Their cry goes up, “How long?”
And soon the night of weeping Shall be the morn of song!
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9 Responses to Conversation With Joe Kennedy, Life-Long Presbyterian
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I love this sentence – it speaks volumes…
“It is a challenge when some of us insist on being treated with dignity and then people fail to respond appropriately.”
Thank you…
Donna
Dear Donna,
Thank you so much for inviting me to dwell for a moment on the volumes spoken by Joe in this complex sentence.
I see how we all can rightly insist on being treated with dignity including the person who does not treat me in that way. This may be what Jesus had in mind when he said to offer your cloak also when another demands your coat. This is an immense challenge for us: to love others as I would be loved.
And what is “failing to respond appropriately” to another? I’d say, it is failing to greet the other as a beloved child of God who bears gifts to me. Shame on me if I spurn the opportunity for fellowship offered to me by judging before I even know the other person.
These are some of the thoughts that have come to me. I hope you, Donna, will share some that have come to you. And I hope others of you will too.
Peace, Janet
“Care and Love are action verbs.” These words give focus to my own search for a way to work towards inclusiveness in the Presbyterian Church. I am searching for a way to put those action verbs into my quest for inclusiveness. The day will come when we (LGBTQ&?)are included fully in church leadership through ordination and it will happen because people love and care.
Hi Janet,
I hesitate to post this because I don’t wish to offer judgment, only thoughts and questions, and the hope to learn and discern.
“It is a challenge when some of us insist on being treated with dignity and then people fail to respond appropriately.”
What that statement impressed on me was the obvious inequality of GLBT people in the church (across denominations) and the perceived lack of power GLBT people have. I say “perceived,” because just because the church denies us status and position in its (dare I say man-made) ranks that doesn’t mean we don’t have dignity or power. As Christians – gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, or not – our power, our glory, our dignity, our hope, rests in and comes only from God. God’s standing invitation is to all and a place at the table is made ready for each one of us. I’m wondering whether we need to insist that we belong or just be present and pass the salt. Admittedly, I have a hard time even being present, but that is due to life commitments and not the church.
On the other hand, that statement also has me pondering the fact that Jesus allowed the rulers of this world their lust for revenge and dominion, even as He silently kept His own power, all the while knowing that in a matter of hours He would break through all the barriers, turn the world upside down, and level the playing field for everyone. This leads me to question, if we insist on dignity, how we can expect a response any better than our Lord received. But if we love and share, invite and care, in the name of Christ, the barriers will come down.
I don’t know the answers but seek them…
Donna
Dear Sharon,
You are so right that what we need to do is focus our care and love in the specific situation of LGBT Christians in the church. Our LGBT sisters and brothers are seeking to fulfill all the responsibilities of baptism, including service in ordained ministry, rising from a sense of God’s call and the gifts clearly manifested in their lives. Standing up for ordination is one way to put our care and love into action.
It is easy to say that we love our neighbor. Making that love an action verb can be as simple as flying a rainbow flag and backing it up with a statement of inclusion in your Sunday bulletin or as complex as joining with others to revise the rules of the church at the national level. Resources at mlp.org can help you turn all those possibilities for caring into concrete action.
Thanks, Sharon, for sharing your hopefulness with us. From it, I know you will find a host of ways to love and care that leads to full inclusion in the church,
Peace, Janet
Janet,
Thank you for sharing this conversation with Joe Kennedy. My quest in the last several years as a Minister of Word and Sacrament in the PCUSA is bring us to the place where we live out in all its fullness the passage Joe quotes as his Mantra, where everyone is welcome, where everyone sees and receives the Christ that is in us all. I know thaqt we have a long way to goto the place where my LGBT and Straight brothers and sisters can live together in peace and harmony, but I always hold on the hope that Christ offers to each and everyone of us; hope rooted in the all inclusive love of God. Thank you for your witness and your strength to speak truth in the midst of anguish and darkness for so may of us.
Dear Donna,
I agree with you completely that “Perception” and “Power” are at the heart of the challenge faced by GLBT people in the church which Joe articulates so well.
Every GLBT Christian has had to throw off the standard perception of what being gay is supposed to mean and then insist on being treated with the respect Jesus gives, even as the old thoughts about oneself nag and pester. When other Christians speak, often unknowingly, with cruel judgment, there is a temptation to let go of the power received from Christ and to answer in kind or to walk away. Then the other person can feel spurned and persecuted like Christ as well.
Nothing good can come from all of us feeling powerless like Jesus on the cross and the fact is Jesus is alive and offers us the Spirit of power and of love and of a sound mind. With that power, as you say, regardless of the powers of this world, we joyfully claim our place at the table and pass the salt when asked.
As Joe and you help me see so well, people “respond inappropriately,” not God in Christ. So we keep loving and serving Jesus until people respond to us appropriately, with dignity and respect, as we treat them.
Thanks, Donna, for keeping the dialogue going. Keep it up! Peace, Janet
How can I find the words to say how proud I am to be Joe’s cousin. I read this article via way of his Reiverbends family history website. He is truly an inspiration to me and our family and I thank GOD for him. May he continue to have the strength and desire to uplift us all. I love you cos :O)
Dear Yvette,
Joe is an inspiration to me as well! I share the gratitude you express to God for his being with us in this life.
His passionate vision for the ministry of Riverbends is awesome. We shall cheer him on together.
Thanks for your shout out for Joe and your prayer for him and his work.
Peace, Janet